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Post by sweetracing on May 17, 2013 12:35:34 GMT -5
" Can't a smaller driver be manufactured?" Well there are different drivers that are already available. They have been available for years. Bulldozer Racing designs & manufactures 5, 6, & 7 tooth Cat window drivers using the 1.125” pitch. (5 tooth internal drive is OEM stock). They also build Polaris window drivers in 5 & 6 tooth sizes using the 2.52” pitch. (4 tooth internal drive is OEM stock.) These are a one pc. design CNC machined with an added set of internal wheels to allow the best in freewheeling rotation. These are hands down the best drivers available for the 120 class tracks. We run these drivers on both our Champ 120 & F-1 with phenomenal results. This is an option for everyone that is experiencing track and driver slipping & jumping issues brought on by higher H.P. engine packages. They also produce final drive relocation kits to accommodate these larger diameter drivers. Our F-1 has these and all the previous track/stud interference problems are cured. Their website is: www.bulldozerracing.comHope that this helps out some and answers the question..
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Post by Bob Vehring on May 17, 2013 20:56:12 GMT -5
Greg Childs, owner of Bulldozer was at the meeting and was very much part of the discussion, He said his won't work with the stock chassis rules either. In Champ or with custom chassis, you can mount the shaft with enough clearance, then move the skid to get the track positioned right. In stock you can not move the skid. What I'm not sure of is weather its only an issue in ovals where studs are used or if the track "balloons" enough to be an issue even with out studs.
On the tail light, the proposal stated ALL CLASSES KK. and 120. The rule that was eventually adopted was different then the proposal, so I guess we will see how its worded but think the point is for all sleds to have it
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Post by sweetracing on May 18, 2013 11:52:10 GMT -5
I e-mailed Bulldozer and they said the 5 tooth Cat and 5 tooth Polaris will definitely fit in the stock chassis without any modification plates. Bulldozer stated the rear suspension mounting holes in the tunnel will need to be slightly relocated if the final drive centerline remains OEM. However, they stated that this is not legal in stock class without a rule adjustment. If the centerline is moved using their plates the 5, 6, & 7 tooth Cat and 5, & 6 tooth Polaris will work and clear without any interference issues. Using these final drive relocation plates the stock OEM rear suspension mounting holes in the tunnel remain unchanged. Again, a rule adjustment would need to be in place to allow this option. It sounds like Bulldozer designed these drivers back in 2004. They told me they were needed back then for the higher H.P. Champ 120 class. The main reason was to eliminate track ratcheting and decrease rolling resistance. They also stated that they have tested and used these on grass drags with over 70H.P. driving the track for the past 7 years without a single durability issue. Sounds like the parts are out there, commercially available and already tested and proven. From what I understand, these would fix the track driver jumping issues (destroying the track). They are a bullet proof investment up front. And looking at the big picture it would be money in your pocket as these larger engines coupled with bigger & heavier riders begin to tear up the OEM 120 tracks & OEM drivers. Building (and replacing) a good racing track for your 120 is not a real cheap deal. Keep in mind, the OEM 120 factory components are designed to perform with a 4hp engine in the back yard and on the trail. For the most part they do a pretty good job at it. As soon as we start adding horsepower, torque and speed, something has got to give and will. The Briggs classes are already here. And as they begin to gain popularity, the failure of OEM components will continue to increase. Slide Lube was just added to save the hyfax on the ice. Snow Cross already needed to add an aftermarket rear shock. Ice ovals need to save their tracks. All of this is because of what I have mentioned above. We need to make sure we keep our eyes, ears and minds open and be able to adjust accordingly when we add these engine options to our sport. You can`t win the race if you don`t finish the race.
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Post by Bob Vehring on May 18, 2013 13:56:31 GMT -5
I agree 100%, so did almost everyone in the room. The issue was discussed in depth. What it came down to was none of us in the room had personally tried to fit all this up, no one was positive what would or would not work. What is needed is some one, or several people to actually try this to find out what will really work. I'm sure theres a fix out there, but a rule can't be written and put into effect until the fix is found and tested. Believe me, everyone wants to find a fix
I can only speak for myself, if we could actually see how much the skid would need to be moved, we would have something to again open the talks. Personally were just engine builders and don't have any sled around here so I haven't been able to even look at the issue
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Post by Dave Cole on May 19, 2013 8:42:51 GMT -5
We will be testing the internal drive system this coming season with the Specialty Class Open 206 which is a Champ chassis and a Briggs spec engine. I'm sure there will be a learning curve, but we will happily let anyone interested know how it works, and have a summary of what worked and what didn't (with costs) for the next ISR meeting. As of right now, we have 3 Polaris owners willing to be a part of this testing. Regards, Dave Cole MMSRA President www.mmsra.ca
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Post by Bob Vehring on May 19, 2013 21:19:19 GMT -5
Dave, if your running Champ class rules, you won't have the problem, you can mount the rear skid where ever you want. Most everyone would be running the mini M10 anyhow. That won't help the stock class under their rules
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Post by sweetracing on May 20, 2013 9:32:49 GMT -5
I agree 100%, so did almost everyone in the room. The issue was discussed in depth. What it came down to was none of us in the room had personally tried to fit all this up, no one was positive what would or would not work. What is needed is some one, or several people to actually try this to find out what will really work. I'm sure theres a fix out there, but a rule can't be written and put into effect until the fix is found and tested. Believe me, everyone wants to find a fix I can only speak for myself, if we could actually see how much the skid would need to be moved, we would have something to again open the talks. Personally were just engine builders and don't have any sled around here so I haven't been able to even look at the issue Bob, I had emailed Greg about your question and here is what I got as a response. So the thing is the parts are HERE. THEY ARE AVAILABLE to EVERYONE to RUN. IT'S A NO BRAINER if you ask me.. We already have them and have tested one full season in Pro Stock. We have moved the centerline down & back with our “Relocation Plate Kits”. The rear skid goes right back into the stock mounting holes. Everything else looks 100% stock OEM. Have already tested all the drivers mentioned and they run flawlessly. It can`t hardly get any easier than this to implement the rule addendum.
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Post by Bob Vehring on May 20, 2013 12:43:26 GMT -5
I had Gregs cell number, now I can't find it, the number off his site does not work. I have a USSA meeting this Wed, someone from ISR will be there. I can bring this up if I can get all the details from Greg. Can someone PM his cell number?
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Post by olywhizzer on May 25, 2013 7:33:12 GMT -5
Any new details Bob?
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Post by Bob Vehring on May 25, 2013 16:58:53 GMT -5
Well, sort of, I talked with someone wo is with ISR at our USSA board meeting, he was going to call the head of ISR and see if we could get it looked at before next years meeting. When I get back in town, I will be sending ainvite to each of the 120 race groups to the event at Eagle River at the Derby track. This will be a expo where they can each have a booth to promote their series. In order for this issue to move forward we would need to get everyone together on it. This is the only time I see where they all could meet
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Post by Bob Vehring on May 25, 2013 17:04:21 GMT -5
BTW, I will be at the Vintage sled round up between St Germain and ER tomorrow, I know some 120 groups do display there
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Post by babzog on May 30, 2013 15:12:06 GMT -5
Any updates?
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Post by Bob Vehring on May 31, 2013 15:32:15 GMT -5
I did run into Dick from ISR at the St Germain show and we talked about it. The most important thing to happen is for everyone to talk to their series reps and then have them contact ISR about it. To be honest, I can't do this alone, they need to hear from the other series. As of last weekend no one else has contacted them about it, if this doesn't happen, this goes nowhere. Were leaving now for a race at Blackhawk Farms, then a 4 day National next week at Mid Ohio, so I probably won't talk to anyone for a week or two, keep this moving among your groups. The Grass Drags at ER looks to have fallen apart for now so IDK how or where everyone will get together.
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